Wednesday, February 06, 2008

The Poetry Foundation has sent me a questionnaire. It is part of a joint project on the part of the foundation and the Aspen Institute, and is intended to “inform discussion and debate at a Poetry Foundation-Aspen Institute conference” sometime in the future. It is very straightforward with six open-ended questions. No multiple choice or yes/no queries in which all the alternatives are atrocious (cf. elections, national, US 2008). So I’m inclined to respond. Herewith are my answers:
1. What is your connection with poetry (read, write, teach, buy books, publish, etc.)?
I write poetry and write critically about poetry as well as write a weblog on contemporary poetry and poetics. Sometimes I teach it, but rather rarely – I’ve turned down the majority of offers I’ve had to teach writing at the college level, including two tenure-track positions. Through my various interactions with poetry, I get something in the range of 1,000 books of poetry each year these days. I have edited small magazines and anthologies, as well as larger trade journals not directly related to poetry.
2. What are the most pressing needs of poetry and the poetry community?
The relationship between poetry and its possible audience(s) has changed dramatically in recent years, yet the institutions that package and process poetry – and especially the expectations both of poet and reader alike – have not kept pace.
There are presently at least 10,000 publishing English-language poets. There may in fact be twice that number – it really depends on what percentage of publishing poets you think have active weblogs dedicated to the subject (if it’s ten percent, then the number is 10,000, but if you think the percentage is lower – as I believe – then the actual census of publishing poets would be greater). There are over 400 creative writing programs turning out new graduates each year. The annual AWP convention sells out at a maximum figure of 7,000 attendees. These consist almost exclusively of poets in academic programs – a tiny fraction of the number of poets – their counterparts in the other genres of creative writing, and employees of the programs and presses that have sufficient critical mass to afford to attend an event like the AWP. If even a quarter of attendees are active in writing poetry, this would suggest that the actual numbers are much higher than we might imagine.
In the 1950s, there were at most a few hundred poets publishing in English. In 40 years, I have never even read one estimate that put that figure above 100. While I think that those estimates were almost all low – Cary Nelson’s Repression and Recovery suggests that a larger population of publishing poets existed who were not critically taken seriously even between the first and second World Wars – I doubt that the real number could have been much above 500. One of the poetry trade groups – I forget if it was Poets House or the Poetry Society of America – received over 4,000 different books of poetry in one year recently. The thousand I get really are just the tip of an iceberg.
The population in the
The consequence is that there are more active poets now than ever, but that the total addressable market for any given book of poems is likely to be much smaller. The trade presses have acknowledged this by largely abandoning the publication of poetry altogether, because for most the economics are not there to support the infrastructure required for a major trade publication.
A handful of poets have had the opportunity to break through and obtain generally large audiences, but the Billy Collins and Ted Koosers of today may well experience the same problems sustaining their audiences after they have gone that their predecessors, Ogden Nash and Edgar Guest, have had. From this, I do not conclude that we should think of such popularity as “dissing” Collins or Kooser, but rather suggesting that we might want to pay more attention to the fate and heritage of the likes of Nash and Guest. For those who are not a Collins, Kooser, Angelou or Giovanni, the experience of being a poet can be quite a bit different. Not only are there not enough colleges to absorb all of the new poets coming out of MFA programs with teaching jobs, there are not even enough college reading series for each of them to get one on-campus reading per year. Poets who may have published an early book with a trade press may well find themselves no longer able to do so, and may experience this as downward aesthetic mobility, like a terrific actress who turns 40 and discovers suddenly that nobody is interested in her skills going forward. Poets who publish with university presses often experience a parallel fate, finding themselves “reduced” to small or independent presses, moving from book publication to chapbooks. Poets who publish one or two small press volumes, may find it harder, or impossible, to find publishers at all. I know several poets who now self-publish small run chapbooks of their work that they simply give away to friends. Others are doing what is functionally the same thing over the web, using PDF files instead of print. Some of these poets experience this new potlatch culture as “failure,” even tho they are producing excellent writing, even when their audiences are completely appreciative of their efforts.
To speak in this social context of “the decline of poetry” strikes me as completely missing the mark. It is possible that fewer people are reading certain types of poetry and/or certain types of poets, but there has never been so much poetry being written in the
This I think changes many of the expectations that we have had about what a life in poetry might mean. I also think that it changes the roles and responsibilities that the institutions of poetry have.
I do think it is the responsibility of individual poets to become much more widely read than has been typically the case. My own sense is that they need to read more on more subjects, from science to linguistics to politics to literature to sociology to art history to you name it, but they also need to read much more poetry, and more kinds of poetry, than generally they have. I am not at all certain that any MFA program should admit a student who cannot name a minimum of 100 books of contemporary poetry – published in the past 25 years – and say a little about each. And I am not sure that I would graduate any student who did not then seriously read 200 more such books over the next period of time – some schools require as few as 25 – and again could say a little about each. This would lead to far fewer students coming out of these programs with only barebones knowledge of what is being done today, far fewer students having to reinvent the wheel, and a much richer sense of what is actually possible in contemporary poetry, from slams to the new formalism, from flarf to narrative, from the prose poem to visual poetics. In both cases, before and after, I would only permit applicants and students to use trade books for one-quarter of the requirement. And I would expect their teachers to be at least as well read.
More tomorrow
Labels: state of the art
Don
But storming the barricades and assuming control of these hoary old institutions ISN'T the ANSWER! Worldly goods are NOT a measure of artistic success, despite what facilitations occur. The greatest poets often work in near total obscurity, and the most admired and lionized are frequently uninspired and quaint. I suspect, along with you, that Collins and Kooser and Oliver and Olds and even sweet Rumi will all be forgotten in a generation or less. Worrying about the fruits and rewards of their meritritious craftsmanship is really a waste of time. Do you think you'd have dissuaded anyone from liking Ogden Nash or Eddie Guest in 1935? Do you think the folks who read that stuff could, or would be likely to have, read and enjoyed the Objectivists instead? Not likely, my man.
Would a successful lobbying campaign for Rae Armantrout to get a prize, instead of William Logan, really prove that anything could change, even if you could bring it about? Would it "mean" that Armantrout's work had achieved critical mass among the probable readerships? Or would the real goal (and value) be to repudiate Logan? Isn't Armantrout's appearance in Poetry and The New Yorker, coming, as it does, nearly forty years after her work first appeared, signify the same "delay" that has always characterized the literary establishment? When was it Ashbery first got poems into The New Yorker? Late 1970's? He'd been writing and publishing for over 20 years before he was "discovered" by the mainstream. And even today, interviewers will start out by asking JA "Mr. Ashbery, many people find your poetry just impenetrable...."
I think the typical reader of poetry today is just as impenetrable as he/she ever was. Give'em a nice little anecdotal/confessional by Levine or Kinnell and they're immediately seduced. And there we go again down the rabbit-hole.
While AWP was fun and noisy, there was much jostling and elbowing for position (and hand-shaking, hand-wringing, hugging and kissing). These are the contradictions, it seems, a small press publisher cannot live without.
kudos Ron!
--Blogless in Buffalo
If you are interested in something... here I am, ok?
1hundredyears.blogspot.com
you can send me things in the language that you want. There is no limits. Thanks for yout time spent reading my words.
How much of "publication anxiety" is the result of one's (my) actual desires, and how much merely the result of a social model felt as a pressure ("what I should be doing is getting published by UC Press--anything short of that is a failure")?
In any case, the "potlach" is a lot more fun.
There's a drastic difference between your two examples, though: making chapbooks and giving them to friends is personal, small-scale, each time a singular act, hard to miss. Putting up a PDF is like adding one drop of water to the Pacific--there's so much online that (I find) 90% of the process of reading poems on the web is glazed clicking, scrolling and filtering. And internet culture's focus on the latest thing (novelty as the most prominent filter) means that an instantaneous wide availabilty is counterbalanced by an imminent vanishing into that ocean.
Do people read online poems over and over, over the course of years?
Maybe they do. It seems less likely to me.
But I revisit the work of friends regularly, and read the physical books received from folks I've met in that ocean (which can be tougher than anything).
Well, I've gone from a more-or-less legit qualititative distinction into the realm of the subjective. The massive blizzard here today is a push toward the internal... in any case, here's to the small-time!
I do read alot and write poems. I enjoy the reading and consuming of information. I may remember the poem and not the book.
A critical intelligence, one that's allowed to investigate the nature of poetry and learning, and other fields also of course, probably can't be well served by counting of this kind, especially when it became a political issue, as inevitably it would in a bureaucracy, of which books would be allowed to be counted as books that count.
I don't dig -- or even get -- why you focus that call only on poets, and then only on those applying or admitted to graduate programs.
Readers of poets also need to be more widely read.
And there are plenty of poets who don't apply to or attend graduate programs. I might suggest that those who don't are better off than those who do. But the point is that there are more than just grad school poets.
Finally, while I dig your idea of somebody "knowing" 300 books of contemporary poetry by the time they are circa 25 years old, I wonder if you've considered how that would be done. You're one of an elite few that receive oodles of poem books free of charge.
The rest of us pay. 300 contemporary books will cost a few thousand dollars. Minimal money in the grand scheme yes, especially to us who earn decent wages, but remember how it was when you were in school. It wouldn't be easy . . ., especially for the thte non-grad student poets, and libraries suck big-time when it comes to holdings of contemporary poetry.
I hope Chaucer, Milton, W.S., Hopkins, Rimbaud, Tu Fu, Giacomo Lentini, etc etc etc are included in your view of what a poet ought to know. And I'm not sure that non-English language poetry is taught much as part of the standard curriculum in high school or college (college English majors).
Specifically, the more a poet knows of contemporary poetry and the classics, the less singular and divine her/his own work will be.
Cf. Dubuffet on Outsider Art, Simon Rodia, Martim Ramirez, Judith Scott, etc.
Hard to think of poet-outsiders as "pure" of an outsider as those artists, however.
giving me the urge to answer them
in one of my 2 virtual spaces
even if no one ever reads my
answers.
-
Hope the source of the questions
would not care.
"meritritious craftsmanship"
combining meretricious and meritorious..
you get a star for the day!
best
lanny
Man, I didn't get anything. I'm going to assume my questionnaire must have gotten lost in the mail, otherwise I'd be incensed!
Best,
Levari
Personally, I'm a fan of big fat anthologies that take me 6 mos to 3 years to complete.
Also regarding his point about the Objectivists: they were published by Poetry in 1931, evidence that the mag's history includes being interested in (and was founded to be interested in) the smaller, as well as the bigger, poetries!
I'm all for personal responsibility, too. But that means living with honor, in my opinion, and doesn't necessarily mean cheerleading for Us (against Them). I love promoting my friends, too. But whether or not they get academic jobs, or other marks of temporal "prestige" is really irrelevant; it doesn't matter how many poets win awards, it never has. There are hundreds of examples of great poets being underappreciated udring their lives, and vice versa. One wonders if by trying to "take over" the awards game, one doesn't actually kill off the quality in some branches of poetry.
Personal responsibility means living your life with honesty and honor, teaching and learning when necessary, and being accountable for both your successes and your mistakes. personal accountability is part of personal responsibility. An honest self-assessment is something, the gods know, many poets could afford spend time doing for themselves.
I always find it interesting how proud you are of not being an "academic"...stuff like:
"Sometimes I teach it, but rather rarely – I’ve turned down the majority of offers I’ve had to teach writing at the college level, including two tenure-track positions"
when you say this you're obviously patting yourself on the back... simultaniously showing your distain for academia, while using the fact that academia wants you, (but can't have you!)to bolster your own credibility.
also, the big irony is, is that you're a born teacher! you've got lots to offer, obviously have always felt the need to do so, and have, and continue to, serve as an unacknowledged legislator of the world! Admit it, most of the time you're teaching at this blog. it's a good class! i like it.
you talk like an academic. you talk about things that academics talk about. you talk to lots of academics. you're pretty much an academic, in the academy or not.
it's amazing to me that someone who values education so much, who, as you show in this post, expects alot of knowledge from contemporary poets and the educational system, is also so blatently anti-university/academia/intellectuals.....afterall, who the hell do you think is reading this shit?
you might say that an MFA degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on. that's true. And since the paper doesn't matter, it doesn't matter whether you have the paper, or not. in your case, you don't. but inside you're an academic.
Personally I'd love to be reading much more contemporary poetry, but I find it difficult to find since it's spread so thin. There isn't exactly a New York Times Book's section dedicated to great new contemporary poems coming out every week. But there should be. And if there is, and you directed me there, I'd be very happy.
One Hundred Million Poets
(Originally published in Long River Run 2007)
No one left to work the fields or
fix a car.
One hundred million stand up comics,
A rather funny situation, at that.
One hundred million singer-songwriters, and
One hundred million rappers, and another
Hundred million rockers. Nothing more
to be said about it.
One hundred million venues.
One hundred million chapbooks.
One hundred million open mikes.
One hundred million short poems.
Two hundred million slams.
Three people in the audience
who do not write.
One hundred billion words.
Leaving little more to say.
One hundred million poets.
One hundred million poets.
At the open mike, one brilliant flash
Follows another. The lyric, the personal,
The humorous, the indignant, the quiet, the loud.
One hundred million poets – reading, raving into the rattling night.
Crooning to the room. Sighing, imploring, convincing,
Talking, speaking our language, speaking a special language
That they have invented, but which can be understood by all.
High wire acts, fire-eaters, trombone players, organ grinders,
Peanut vendors, realtors, entrepreneurs. Words of prayer, Illusionary
Words. Impassioned laughter. A deep hole.
I crawl in, and am gone.
One hundred million poets,
Minus one.
the blog is this: 1hundredyears.blogspot.com
thanks!!!
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