Monday, May 21, 2007

 

Of my reluctance in 1970 to include Bob Grenier in the “15 New Poets of the San Francisco Bay Area” feature that David Melnick & I edited for the Chicago Review, an old acquaintance & longtime editor writes that

there was really no need in late 1970 to be afraid of bob grenier's minimalism: aram saroyan was already there

It was, of course, impossible not to know about Aram Saroyan circa 1970. Random House had published his eponymous volume, Aram Saroyan, (in which the poem above appears) in 1968, Pages one year later. How many other experimental poets were getting books published & widely distributed by New York trade presses back then? Clark Coolidge’s Space, published by Harper & Row in 1970¹, was really the only other one. If you knew about the New York School, you knew about Aram Saroyan. Ditto if you paid attention to the conceptual poetics that seemed to be emerging from 0 – 9, the journal co-edited by Vito Acconci & Bernadette Mayer, tho that was, at the time, a much more fugitive endeavor. And, of course, when Saroyan got a grant from the NEA, some congressman read some of his work, perhaps “Blod” (a one-word poem, if, that is, Blod’s a word) into the Congressional Record with all the rhetorical froth we would expect today from Bill O’Reilly. Finally, the name Aram Saroyan inevitably rang bells simply because, for my generation & at least in California, William Saroyan’s My Name is Aram was as predictably a part of the high school curriculum as Things Fall Apart or Beloved are today. That the title character’s name in the book is not Saroyan, or that the poet was born three years after My Name is Aram’s initial publication, were just details.

But, as I replied, I was pretty sure that, in 1970, I wouldn’t have included Aram Saroyan in that grouping either. His conceptual poetics were perceived, I think, as a satire on publishing and poetry itself, witty & fun perhaps, but decidedly & willfully outré. And outré was not what Chicago Review was about in that era. While it published some experimental fiction, thanks to editor Eugene Wildman, in poetry the journal struck Melnick & I as being anxious about its status as a “major” college-based publication, which meant in practice that they were not looking for Aram Saroyan but the next Sylvia Plath.

Besides which, what Saroyan & Grenier were doing at that time were not exactly identical, a distinction that might have been lost because both used exceptionally short forms & were often paired in the minds of readers & editors with Clark Coolidge. Grenier’s best known work from this period is Sentences, published originally by Whale Cloth Press in an edition of 500 cards delivered in a box, but now online at the Whale Cloth site. Saroyan’s work has been online also, principally at the Eclipse website, but now is available in a fat & sumptuous edition from Ugly Duckling Presse under the title Complete Minimal Poems. At 275 pages, it’s just slightly over half the size of Sentences.

Saroyan’s work often seems to come out of the same conceptualism that drove Acconci’s work of that period. One poem in Aram Saroyan, the first of Saroyan’s minimal books, is a page of nothing but radio call letters. Another reads:

STEAK

ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQURSTUVWXYZ

A third contains the word crickets repeatedly typed, one word to a line, down an entire page. This is a type of poem almost entirely absent from Grenier’s work, which shows almost no interest in conceptualism. The closest Grenier gets to this mode is an occasional poem that functions at the metacomment level:

TWELVE VOWELS

breakfast

the sky flurries

A second Saroyan type that comes closer to Grenier entails poems that utilize the graphic elements of language – the poem at the top of this note is a famous instance of this. As it does there, this kind of poem works when there is some intelligible connection – it doesn’t have to be articulatable – between what is going on the page and denotative & connotative dimensions of the word at hand. Thus

eyeye

strikes me as effective precisely for the way it calls up the double-image element involved in stereoscopic vision, why humans see in 3D, whereas

lighght

just sits there on the page doing not much of anything.

Grenier likewise has works in Sentences that depend on their graphic presentation, such as this poem, which builds on a device – the s t r e t c h e d word – first developed by Paul Blackburn::

s o m e o l d g u y s w i t h s c y t h e s

At one level, this is a poem about the blank space, what Hugh Kenner liked to call the 27th letter of the alphabet (and certainly the last one “invented”) and how it cuts (or scythes) discrete words from the flow of speech – it a prerequisite for the existence of words at all. Yet there is a richness both of sound and image here that gives Grenier’s poem dimensions that simply aren’t active in Saroyan’s work. This is characteristic of Grenier, whose most common mode of micropoetics in Sentences is a snatch of language that begins & ends in atypical places, e.g.,

yawns at solid

or

or the starlight on the porch since when

Grenier’s use of the graphic dimension of language doesn’t really occur until much later, when he moves into his “scrawl” works. In those pieces, tho, what seems to interest Grenier most is the making explicit of the “coming to recognition” process of reading. He is really fascinated at the idea of identifying the instant a word “pops” into consciousness & poem after poem functions to locate precisely this moment. I’ve often that Grenier comes closest to what I would call a cognitive formalism – using form to explore cognition, the mind as such. There are of course limits to this – one can explore that instant in which words appear, for example, but it would far harder to identify a gap that occurs, for example, when one can’t think of a term, even tho it is every bit as palpable.

The place where Saroyan and Grenier completely overlap, not surprisingly, are in the poems that call up the relationship to what they’re doing as poets and the larger tradition of poetry, as such, especially the short poems of Louis Zukofsky & the Robert Creeley of Pieces:

LOUIS

Noisy
“Zukofsky”

Or this, entitled “Placitas” and dedicated to L.Z.:

The trees’
noise of
the sea

Or this, entitled “POEM”:

One two
three there
are three are
never seen
again.

These three all are the work of Saroyan.

A word that turns out to be important to both poets is crickets. Not only does Saroyan have a couple of poems that allude not just to the critter, but to the great summer drone of insects, one of Grenier’s best known essays explores the ways in which Keats’ own use of the term – “hedge-crickets sing” – milk

words of all possible letter/phonemic qualities without really challenging notion of English word/morpheme as basic unit of ‘meaning.

My favorite of Saroyan’s several cricket poems is one that falls into the neo-Zukofsian category:

Not a
cricket

ticks a
clock

But when Saroyan moves away from this one area that he shares with Grenier, he goes back toward either a conceptual poetics and/or a New York School one. These two poems appear on facing pages in Pages:

cat
book
city

And

Ted Ted Ted Ted
Ted

The first depends entirely on scale of referents for its impact, something I can’t imagine Grenier ever doing, the second may be a parody of the NY School’s (esp. Gen 2) penchant for name dropping. Or it might be the most NY School poem ever written.

Grenier’s default mode, in sharp contrast, tends toward documentation:

of life days like

*

a port to a green

*

rain drops the first of many

*

repetitive bird and black

Each of these four one-line poems can be read both as an instance of language-in-the-world and as a study in form. It requires an almost obsession focus on the language itself. With Saroyan, not so much:

Later

the atelier

ate her.

It’s not that Grenier does the micropoem better, whatever that means, than Saroyan. Nor is it that Saroyan is the original, Grenier the copy. Rather, what each was seeking to find & explore was ultimately something different about language & the poem. Which suggests that even one-line poems can (are) so thoroughly stylized that one can discuss their relationship to different literary movements. This makes me wonder what a new formalist one-line poem would look like – not a couplet, not a haiku, but a real single-line work of art. How would it then enact its values? What would it be able to look, see, do in the world of poetry? Or is it simply the case that new formalism, so called, is by definition incapable of writing so focused? I’d love to see someone try.

 

 

¹ As part of Fran McCullough’s attempt to bring the second generation New York School out broadly through Harper. Other books published by Harper during that period included Tom Clark’s Stones (1969), his volume Air, Dick Gallup’s Where I Hang My Hat and Lewis Mac Adams’ The Poetry Room (all 1970). Then it stopped. Once Robert Duncan & Robert Creeley left Scribner’s for New Directions, the publication of post-avant poets by the New York Trades largely came to an end, save for later collected editions of already canonic poets. The School of Quietude had successfully defended what it saw as its turf.

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comments:
lumbering sleaze breakfast macro


The sleaze
noise of
the sea'
s teak breakfast

[breakers]

"th' lighght in my eyeyes..."

saturn alphabet progeny food

sa pha pro fo

saphaprofo the s / release

the noise might lumber
toward the meat

[breakers] m e e t b e e c h

"th' lighght in my eyeyes..."

mouth balcony aria
beach ward phylum's sylla

scyllable and characterybdis-

tance saphaprofo of a sewing machine mouthed

[breakers]'
breakfast {line} and

incunabula clockwork owl
in which Goya sleeps
in fork and spoon feathers

powered by crickets
wearing their best golden
fleas

[he wakes] w/ flea apartment epaulets

"th' lighght in my eyeyes..."

eyesteakite two stacks
of dinghy paper
wharves
 
"The School of Quietude had successfully defended what it saw as its turf."

Mightn't it be that, as far as the New York literary establishment was concerned, the "Sixties" (with its challenging attitudes and formalities) was "over" by 1970. We tend to think of Coolidge and Saroyan and MacAdams as unwelcome visitors to the New York publishing scene, but in a sense those books from Harper were like much of the activity of the art scene--Oldenburg, Pop, Op, Warhol, late Abstract Expressionism etc.--indulged temporarily, then abandoned as the culture moved on. In a sense, Berrigan and Padgett and Clark etc., "did" their NYS #II thing BEFORE 1970. Creeley walked away from Pieces, Ashbery abandoned Tennis Court, O'Hara was dead, and everyone moved on. To conceive this "temporary" victory by the avant garde may not be accurate historically. Scribner's and Harper and Random House were all undergoing severe changes during those years. And why, exactly, did Random House publish Saroyan? I don't know the story, but I suspect it had less to do with an editorial decision to privilege experimentation than with a desire to capitalize on the name--which is NOT, of course, a commentary on the work, which occupies a significant position vis-a-vis the development of minimalist (and conceptual and concrete) verse in the 20th Century. Also significant was Saroyan's abandonment of the style at about that point, in favor of more discursive poetry, as well as prose work.* Grenier pushed ahead with his researches and eventually abandoned type altogether, though that took much longer. Saroyan's statement that he tended to "draw words" calligraphically, and that his obsolete red typewriter was a primary influence on his work looks forward twenty years to Grenier's rejection of type. Both writers were/are refugees from the obsolescence of manual type technology--an harbinger of the problems associated now with computer-generated type face, programs, software, and the quickly changing landscape of projected image. We may never know, now, how much further the manual text generation might have (been) pushed, as we drift further away from it in time.

*Also, of interest, is the 35 year delay in Saroyan's decision to republish these works. Does that delay represent a long procrastination, or a long hiatus during which he tended to deny the implication and effect of having done that work in the first place.
 
Hi Ron ---

Aram Saroyan's "lighght" appeared in the September 1967 issue of Chicago Review --- the anthology of concretism issue --- edited by Wildman.

The poem won Saroyan a NEA poetry award and generated some of the controversy you mention --- see Saroyan's account here:

http://www.ubu.com/papers/saroyan_flower.html

That issue of CR also contains an errata slip apologizing for the absence of various poets and announcing the publication of Emmett Williams's Anthology of Concrete Poetry from Something Else Press. A "Gernier" is among the neglected --- probably a misprint of Pierre Garnier . . . possibly a misprint of Grenier . . .

Regardless, an interesting genealogy via Wildman.

From the archives,

Joshua
 
Ron:

It seems to me that you've given "lighght" short shrift, so I wrote about these poems on my blog. Rather than taking space here, I'll just link to it for you.


Best,
Nathan
 
TYPOo
 
typo canoe & ticonderoga too
 
Damn that damn school of quietude! Defending its turf with such voracious, efficacious tenacity! And with such quietude!


Seriously, thanks for the terrific post. Very nice & subtle discussion of the distinctions between the 2 poets.
 
Ron,

A good explanation of the differences between the work of these two great minimalists. Having never sat down to think about it before, I was amazed to see what was there.

Certainly, "eyeye" and "lighght" are Saroyan's two best pwoermds, and most famous--followed quickly by the inscrutable "Blod." And people tend to prefer one over the over. I prefer "eyeye," which is visually more pleasing and the seeing of which essentially literally lays out its central meaning. "lighght," though, has its charm--it is a picture of the movement of light, extending forever yet not changing shape.

These two works make clear that Saroyan was writing for the eye at this time. Neither poem makes sense unless seen. And your choice of illustration for today's blog (Saroyan's "Poster Poem") makes clear Saroyan's interest in visual (not just aural) punning.

One thing about "eyeye," though. I'm not sure it's really Saroyan's poem. I think the honor goes to the unnamed person in this testimony by Saroyan in "Concrete Poetry: A World View":

I began as a "regular" poet, imitating effects I liked in Creeley, Ashbery, everybody. Then one night by accident I typed eyeye. I didn't know what it was. Someone else saw it and said--yes!

Saroyan needed to be told he'd created something. He couldn't understand his typographical error's depth.

Geof
 
Another distinction--not to nit-pick--

Grenier's Sentences doesn't really begin until the late 1970's. Bob had been writing "poems" right through his appointment at Berkeley and beyond--

the first drafts of A Day At The Beach pre-date Sentences by some years.

There's Water Farmer, the unpublished manuscript of poems written between the end of Dusk Road Games, and the first poems in Series (which is in turn composed of works from the Lanesville and Gloucester sequences, and various versions of poems written concurrently with A Day At The Beach. A Day At The Beach, by the way, in its final published form, contains no more than about 15% of the poems that were originally designated for inclusion. The whole history of Grenier's work between 1967 and about 1977 is one of work abandoned because there was no favorable response by publishers. I don't know how many rejected complete manuscripts there were, but perhaps something like five (?).

Sentences belongs to the period after this, when, in relative isolation in New England, BG began to tinker with short phrases and sentence fragments. These were no longer "poems" in the sense of those pieces written between about 1967 and 1975, but a newly conceived form. Creeley's Pieces showed the way, and BG followed.

Cup
bowl
saucer
full.
 
Bob Grumman just (well, 13 years ago, actually) said that "lighght" was one of his favorite visual-verbal poems:

http://comprepoetica.com/newblog/blog01206.html

i know when i read it as a kid i still could remember how it felt to have to come to grips with that particular bizarrerie of english orthography--which this spare, elegant poem (but not only) re-evokes...

m.
 
Saroyan made the news for his poems, but especially for getting an NEA on the basis of such poems. He was the Mapplethorpe of his day.

Was it news that stays news, as Pound said poetry should be?

Well, it hasn't been on the news since then.

I think it was David Kherdian who told me that he used to hang out with Aram Saroyan (the Armenian connection) and that pot was a major feature of their cerebrations. Kherdian went into a steep Gurdjieff dive and spent decades in that guru business on communes on Long Island and in rural Oregon.

Kherdian was a roommate of Lew Welch for a stretch.

Kherdian hit big with a novel about a girl caught up in the Armenian holocaust and the book enabled him to never work at a real job since. Last I heard he was living outside of Portland, Oregon. I have all his poetry books. I can't understand them. He seemed to argue when I met him that his and Saroyan's central influence was Gregory Corso!

You can feel that influence on Saroyan for sure in the poem you cite last:

Later
the atelier
ate her.

Which recalls Corso's first poem at age 14 written in NYC public library

My mother hates the sea,
my sea especially,
I warned her not to;
it was all I could do.
Two years later
the sea ate her.

From "Sea Chanty" in The Vestal Lady on Brattle, p. 64.

Saroyan's poems as pared down as they are seem to keep something of the warmth of Armenia in them. I can't explain it, a vast human reservoir of mature lovingkindness that seems to be changed in Grenier's poems into the coldness of the socialist abstraction that hasn't changed since the early 20s.
 
Woops, Kirby, you're out on a limb again. Grenier has a distinctly protestant bent in his writing, with strong roots to New England Transcendentalism (Emerson & Thoreau). It would be difficult for me to understand where, in his work, you could find a "socialist abstraction" since his subject matter and focus seems to be based primarily on the family unit, work, a relationship with the land, the importance of play.

I'm not sure I can find anything remotely "ethnic" in Saroyan's minimalist poems. On the contrary, they seem ethnically neutral.

There are certain of Aram's later poems which bear a stronger resemblance, perhaps, to Corso's method. But the minimalist works operate in a different genre.
 
In fact I myself couldn't find anything much in Saroyan or in Kherdian's poetry that resembled Corso's.

So I was surprised the Kherdian told me this.

(I was in his house in Portland, Oregon a few days before he moved to another house a bit further out. I had contacted him to discuss his interest in Gurdjieff but it turned out we had a much larger mutual interest in Corso.)

So at any rate I was surprised that this one poem in which the word "atelier" appears did borrow a rhyme from Corso -- later -- ate her.

As for Grenier, I was just teasing Ron.
 
Didn't Kherdian write that bibliography on the San Francisco Renaissance poets?

I think he also published a book of poems, which I have still somewhere.

I thought of him as a hanger-on.

Whatever happened to G.S. Charat Chandra? --Woops, he died in 2000 (Wikipedia). Darrell Gray knew him when we were all at Iowa. Hard to believe he was 65 when he died. Edited a little mag called Kamadhenu.
 
Thanks, Michael, for mentioning my view of "lighght"--which I actually consider one of the best poems of ANY kind, ever. I wrote about it in my 1997 essay on minimalist poetry at light&dust--http://www.thing.net/~grist/l&d/grumman/egrumn.htm, and many times elsewhere. I'm still writing about it, for I just discussed it in a book about haiku I'm currently working on--as a haiku. I fear I never thought much of "eyeye." We have two eyes, so what?

--Bob G.
 
Kherdian had at least 10 books of poems. He got very involved in Gurdjieff stuff, and edited a journal.

The last I know he was very involved in golf up in the Portland suburbs, and had had a kidney stone. And he was still interested in Gurdjieff. Gurdjieff was a Christian Armenian Greek of sorts who wrote some funny books filled with weird jokes.

He did write a book about the San Francisco Poets early on. I have a copy. It isn't memorable but it's competent, I think.

Kherdian wrote a perennial bestseller about a girl caught up in the Armenian holocaust. IT's very experimental even though it sells to teens. He makes millions off it. He told me had published thirty books and just one of them got legs, and that one was kept him from ever working again.
 
Curtis,

Do you not see a closer similarity between A Day at the Beach and Sentences than between those books and the work in, say, Phantom Anthems? I think Sentences is his best work, but it doesn't seem like that radical a shift (for Grenier, that is--his work in general is a radical shift, when you compare it to the rest of poetry).

h l e a p s o b l i g h t s

*

MONSTERS

pick up & go

stay put fast

*

abandoned object actually except as example

*

FUCK

owww

*

AFF AFF

arf arf

arf arf aff aff

*

HI SEAL

hi seal

hello seal

*

FLIES

are actually moving along or moving along


*

THESE APPEAR

to be more rounded down and sought
 
MAD magazine published a book that could be considered a contribution to the minimalist, concrete, orthographic moment, in 1973, "The MAD Book of Word Power," by Max Brandel. Most of the book involved visual puns but some were strictly orthographic jokes, such as these 3, in their entirety:


Thou sh lt not steaal!


LEST WE FO GET


SET THINE HOUSE IN ORDRE



Underlining the materiality of language, through corny jokes (which I love, though I would understand if others didn't).

I do want to plump for another Saroyan one-worder, which my college teacher Ken Mikolowski read to our class and commented on:


aaple



Two friends and I collaborated on this one-worder (another corny joke), back in college:


fra
ctions
 
Phantom Anthems was written as a "time out" between Sentences and the Scrawls.

I'm not sure what the original impetus, but he told me he used to pour that stuff out as an exorcism or regurgitation from working nights as a copyreader at the Brobeck Law Firm in San Francisco (for years). He'd drive back in the wee hours, write a poem, and crash. He sees them as filled with "crazy energy".

Of course, those of us who've always like Bob's work, even (or especially) the straight "poems" don't much care how they got written--just that they did.

There were a number of lovely poems he simply threw away in the 1970's. What a shame....
 
Grenier's Sentences doesn't really begin until the late 1970's. Bob had been writing "poems" right through his appointment at Berkeley and beyond-- Faville

well. I was at Franconia from 1970-1973, and had some juvinalia published in "This" thanks to Bob, I guess. All I can tell you is that, as Bob says in several places available online, a great deal of Sentences was written and shared during that period in Franconia. Bob states frequently that it was simply the format which was a very easy way not to get published. Of course, the page restraints in "This" certainly show his bu
burgeoning direction.

Most of Sentences, as I recall most of these pieces in manuscript form, were written in a spiral notebook and typed on a selectric, Grenier's weapon of choice.
 
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G

Elisa Gabbert & Kathleen Rooney

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Hall Gailey

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Dust Congress Hackmuth

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& Sarah Weinman

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Luisa Igloria

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Pirooz M. Kalayeh

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Sven Laasko

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Levari

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Rebecca Mabanglo-Mayer

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Portrait by Didi Menendez

Ron Silliman has written and edited over 30 books to date. Silliman was the 2006 Poet Laureate of the Blogosphere, a 2003 Literary Fellow of the National Endowment for the Arts and was a 2002 Fellow of the Pennsylvania Arts Council as well as a Pew Fellow in the Arts in 1998. He lives in Chester County, Pennsylvania, with his wife and two sons, and works as a market analyst in the computer industry.


© 2002 - 2009 by Ron Silliman


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